At just six years old, Mackenzie Ziegler was already a household name in the entertainment industry and pop culture. She and her sister were two of seven girls on an elite dance competition team outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania who rose to prominence on what remains one of the most quotable and iconic reality television shows of the 2010s. 

But it’s been nearly a decade since the Zieglers, along with the majority of the original cast, went their separate ways after years on the show in pursuit of other endeavors. For some, that’s included a traditional college experience; for others, including Ziegler – who now simply goes by “Kenzie” as an artist – it’s meant dipping their toes into other areas of the entertainment industry.

Loyal viewers of Dance Moms saw Kenzie develop an early passion for singing – on the show, she enrolled in voice lessons and eventually went on to release an adorable single as a nine-year-old under the stage name “Mack Z.” It’s safe to assume that most members of Gen Z wouldn’t be thrilled to relive their elementary school moments – and Kenzie is no different.

“My digital footprint is actually wild,” she exclaims to V over Zoom. “I’m just like, wow, I don’t ever, ever, ever want to relive how I was as a child – I was so annoying. I can’t even deal.”

Despite her embarrassment around her social media presence at a young age, Kenzie tells V that she is grateful for her upbringing and the opportunities it’s afforded her, while still acknowledging the anxiety the environment gave her and how it affects her today. 

“When I was younger, I would get so much anxiety performing at dance competitions. I was just so worried about what other people would think of me that I would choke up. Even performing in the past, as recently as last year, I really couldn’t do it. I would just freak out.”

But she hasn’t let criticism or self-doubt prevent her from following her passion for music as a young adult. Since exiting the show, Kenzie has continued to release music independently, and she’s spent the last two years embarking on her latest musical chapter – a full-length album entitled biting my tongue. 

In an Instagram post announcing the album release, Kenzie wrote that “this is one of the first times I’ve felt like I’ve had a say in my own story.” As she leaves her teenage years behind, the project feels simultaneously like a departure from and a love letter to her younger self. 

“This year, I’ve just not really worried about what other people think. I love the music that I’m making, and so I just let it speak for itself, regardless of how people feel about it.”

For more on Kenzie’s highly-anticipated album release, V caught up with the multi-talented artist over Zoom as she delved into her collaborative creative process, entering the industry as a child, and how her relationship to performance has evolved.

V Magazine: It’s so nice to meet you! First of all, happy belated birthday – you just turned 20! I know it’s only been a week, but how’s 20 treating you so far?

Kenzie: Honestly, it’s been treating me well. I’ve been having a good week, but it’s so scary being 20 – I can’t say I’m a teenager anymore! But I also feel like this will be the best year so far.

V: Totally. I felt the exact same way! It’s definitely a very prominent year in your life. Your new album biting my tongue comes out next month, so that’s another huge chapter to enter alongside your 20s as well. On Instagram, you wrote that biting your tongue was your way of holding yourself back when you were younger, but this album speaks for your younger self, who was too afraid to speak her mind. I found that really interesting, because you initially discovered your passion for music at a young age, while you were on a reality show in front of the entire world. Has being in the public eye for the majority of your life impacted your desire for individuality and independence in that space, especially as you get older?

K: Being in this industry so young, I definitely craved independence really early on – I felt like I was an adult when I was 15 years old. So I definitely craved that, and I think social media had a lot to do with it. In Gen Z, I feel like everyone grew up so quickly, largely because of social media. I’m just glad that although I had independence at a young age, my mom didn’t let me move out on my own until I was 18 years old. I felt older than I really was back then, but now, I feel younger than I am. It’s weird. Sometimes I still feel like a kid.

V: I feel like you specifically dealt with a dichotomy surrounding the perception of your age in the media, because you were the youngest [on the show], and then everyone saw you grow up and came to this sudden realization that you weren’t six years old anymore. You received backlash for things that any 15 year old would be doing — you just happened to be a public figure. And I think people sometimes viewed you as the age you were when they started watching you on TV, which is a really interesting balance to straddle as you’re growing up.

K: Totally, totally. Yeah, I think it was really hard for me to grow up during the rise of social media. I mean, I had Instagram when I was eight years old, which was just so weird. I was a teenager growing up on the internet in front of so many people, and of course, I received insane criticism, because I was doing everything that a normal teenager would do, but it was just all over the internet, which is probably my fault. I was not very private when I was younger. It was very difficult for me, because I just felt like I was a bad kid, but I really wasn’t at all. I just wanted to be a good role model for everyone. So that was very tricky for me, but I honestly think it helped me become the person that I am today. I feel like I’m a very strong person. I won’t let anything get to me now. All of those comments, I just ignore and laugh at because I’m just so happy and thriving. People just want a reaction at the end of the day.

V: Of course. Well, that’s a great outlook to have, which comes with a more mature perspective. I noticed a lot of that displayed on the album, especially in your writing. One of the lead singles, “word vomit,” is definitely true to its title – super lyrically dense and brutally honest. You’ve spoken about writing that one with an all female team. How did that experience impact your honesty and your ability to be vulnerable while you were writing?

K: It’s just so much easier to talk to girls about a breakup, so when we were writing that song, I felt very comforted. I’m really close with the two people that I worked with on the song, and it was really like a therapy session for me, because we as girls just support each other. I just remember telling them everything and them gasping. It was such a great writing session, because I realized it’s okay to go through this and share your feelings. There’s obviously two sides to a breakup, and that’s just how I was feeling in the moment. Writing the song helped me get over it in a way, because it’s a difficult thing to go through after being with someone for a really long time and during the most prominent parts of your life.

V: Yeah, that’s amazing. Speaking of collaborating with people, another incredible song of yours, “anatomy,” delves into your relationship with your dad. Your sister, Maddie, choreographed the video, which featured an actress playing your younger self. What was it like working with Maddie on such a personal and emotionally vulnerable project for both of you?

K: My sister is very supportive of everything that I do. Most of the time when I film music videos, she’s usually there helping me get ready, and she has choreographed some of my videos in the past, but this one just felt so special. When I played the song for her, it obviously really hit home for her and for my mom. It was just all around a very special song to us, and I wanted nothing more than for her to participate in it however she could. She also semi-helped direct it, which was really awesome to see. My sister is such a powerhouse – she knows what she wants. Working with her just made me so happy because she’s such a great support system. She’s so talented in everything that she does, so having her behind the scenes was great. I just felt really comforted, because obviously it is very sad, so having her there with me was all I could have ever asked for.

V: I love that. Last month, you performed some of your new album at the Grammy Museum in LA. What did such a huge milestone signify for your career?

K: This year, I’ve been hitting so many milestones, and it just feels so surreal. Of course, the Grammy Museum, it’s so awesome. I think for me, what’s more important is that I’m finally enjoying being on a stage and performing again. When I was younger, I would get so much anxiety performing at dance competitions. I was just so worried about what other people would think of me that I would choke up. Even performing in the past, as recently as last year, I really couldn’t do it. I would just freak out. This year, I’ve just not really worried about what other people think. I love the music that I’m making, and so I just let it speak for itself, regardless of how people feel about it. 

V: That’s amazing. As we were discussing, being in the public eye since you can remember must have created such an intense feeling of anxiety around being perceived as a young kid in those environments. But now, having grown up and evolved and come into yourself, you’re entering a new musical chapter, which feels very much like a departure from the other musical eras in your past. You’ve definitely, I think, been unfairly criticized for sort of distancing yourself from your past, and I imagine that’s really hard to navigate. You’re here now, making the music you’ve always wanted to make, but you originally became known for something else. I think both you and your sister have navigated that balance really well. Has that been difficult?

K: Thank you. Yeah, I think it’s just been difficult to get my point across to people — I obviously am so grateful for my upbringing. I mean, I would not be here without it, seriously. I would be in Pittsburgh, probably working a normal job. I’m so thankful for it. Growing up in the dance world taught me so many things – to be a strong person, to be obedient, it taught me musicality. I’m so appreciative of everything I came from, but it’s been 10 years since that happened. I am so different. I don’t even remember my childhood, honestly. I think that people forget that, of course, we are so appreciative. It was not the best experience for me – I do have anxiety because of it, and it still affects me. But I wouldn’t trade it for the world, and I really love all the girls. I’m just really thankful for them. I wouldn’t be here without it.

V: I think you definitely get your point across. And I think any regular person can relate to not constantly wanting to be reminded of their early teen years or middle school years.

K: Totally. My digital footprint is actually wild. I’m just like, wow, I don’t ever, ever, ever want to relive how I was as a child – I was so annoying. I can’t even deal.

V: I promise it’s not as bad as you think. Everyone views their own middle school experience as more embarrassing than anyone else remembers it! But I think that resonates with everyone. When you reflect on your career as a musician, what has been the most instrumental in shaping your growth?

K: What shaped how I am now with my music was telling myself that I have to take risks. Especially being very young, going into writing sessions with professional people that actually know what they’re doing, I was kind of just like, “well, I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m gonna do it.” I literally came from no music background, other than my mom putting me in vocal lessons, so it was just a whole new world for me. With dance, I was so scared to take risks and try new things. I stuck to what I knew. So with music, I’ve just been wanting to try everything. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. That’s how it is with life too. Sometimes, you just have to be like, “whatever happens, happens” and just take a risk. And usually when I do take a risk with music, it turns out pretty good. “Don’t be afraid” is what I’ve been telling myself. Like, who cares? If you get humiliated, whatever – you tried [laughs].