Even for a midday meeting in Manhattan at a coffee shop, Chris Kelley is strapped into a pair of calfhigh, slightly menacing boots. The 6’3”, hoodie and jean-wearing man waiting for me at the counter doesn’t seem menacing, and in fact comes off as easy going only seconds into our interview. But the boots, at a glance … a case for “intimidating” could be made.

And it’s the conundrum that Kelley, the reigning Mr. Eagle NYC (a competitive title awarded annually), finds himself tackling head-on. He is the face of what is undoubtedly the most well-known leather club in the U.S. — possibly the world. And the Eagle brand is one of the most-known faces of the leather and BDSM subculture–renowned for its secrecy as much as it is for its overly exaggerated tropes of masculinity that inhabit the scene. Sketches from artists like Tom of Finland and Dom Orejudos (known widely by the pen name Etienne) that depict muscle bound, motorcycle jacket-wearing men with oversized bulges, bigger biceps, and more deck the halls of leather venues presumably filled with bearded, leather-clad daddies puffing on cigars. At least that’s what the public consciousness often conjures up when conversations around leather emerge. That public image has been a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts: those who identify with it feel they are welcome and frequent leather bars in droves while those who don’t see themselves tend to stay away. But, with the belief that leather and kink are for everyone, Kelley has been deconstructing that image over the past year.

A set designer by day, the 28-year-old worked on the leather-focused season 11 of American Horror Story. And it was in preparation for that job that he attended International Mr. Leather, the largest annual leather competition in the world, held in Chicago. 

“It was such an amazing experience to see so many comfortable folks living their truth in a shared space without judgment,” Kelley says. In the same way that gay meccas like Fire Island seem to flip the baseline so that being queer is the norm, at events like IML, Mid Atlantic Leather, and Cleveland Leather Awareness Week, kink and fetish is the norm. So within the confines of the hotels the events have taken over — all three events rent out the entire hotel— it is not out of place to see attendees wearing pup gear to breakfast or standing off to the side, tied up in a leather straightjacket while their doms chat. 

“I had this epiphany moment watching the sunrise in Chicago and thought, ‘I’m going to do whatever it takes to get me back here next year competing,’” So he ran for Mr. Eagle NYC and won.

With title and sash in hand, Kelley has embarked on a campaign to “change the pH balance” of the Eagle clientele so that it is more in line with the realities of the wider LGBTQ+ community. And that doesn’t mean turning off or turning away regulars — they are no doubt pleased that his efforts have brought live demonstrations back to The Eagle in a recurring capacity — but, instead only opening the door wider for those who may have never darkened the doorstep. And his efforts to do so, have resulted in real impact: one of his events has seen a club night go from just a handful of attendees to 500 consistently. 

Ahead of Chris Kelley’s return to International Mr. Leather this May, he talks to V about how he got into kink, how working on American Horror Story changed his life, and his campaign to change the culture of leather and fetish in New York City.

V MAGAZINE: How did you get into leather?

CHRIS KELLEY: I guess, informally I’ve always been into leather without understanding the context behind it. Like “oh this makes me feel funny when I see an image.” As someone who works in film, I’m a big believer that pop culture and those experiences when you’re younger inform your taste level. With fetish it kind of unlocks something. I always say I was raised on James Bond films and the X Men and everyone was in very form fitting leather outfits and that was exciting for me.

I didn’t get my first harness until I was in college and I didn’t really have many experiences until I moved to New York City. I went to school in Upstate New York and that was not really kinky. Sure there were people who were like I’ll fist you but they had no idea what they were doing. But moving to the city was the key — it was a huge step forward. 

V: People often say the thing with cartoons that you just mentioned or films during childhood that were formative. Do any particular scenes stand out?

CK: I always say that my father had me watch a lot of classic James Bond and Old Hollywood films when I was young and that was both formative for me wanting to work in film on a design level but also the idea of this classic alpha male. You know this hot, muscular, rugged James Dean type or a Sean Connery. But also there’s that sensitivity where these actors might be hyper masculine onscreen and low and behold they are leading these covert lives offscreen. 

There was Hugh Jackman in the X Man films I saw in fifth or sixth grade. There was this wow, va-va-voom that was super impressionable. There’s a lot of tight, close shots of pecs and butts.

V: The notion of being kinky but not a part of a community in your earlier years is also pretty common. 

CK: In college it’s hard. The town where I went to college is very queer but I think everyone, when they go to college, is like “I have to lose my virginity” and they are all very vanilla. When you have come to college and have seen things in pornography that excites you and you want to get into something that’s a little edgier, finding a compatible person is more difficult than people would imagine. It leads to unfulfilling sexual experiences and this feeling of is there something wrong with me or is there something wrong with everyone else. 

V: Did you find that you’re into actual leather? I ask because with a lot of American leathermen they aren’t sexually into leather — it’s just sort of this drag or a visual symbol that they are sexually progressive and kinky. Which is very different from when a European says they are into leather.

CK: Right! When Europeans say it, they want to keep the leather on. But for me I’m very much into leather in the European way, in the sense that I find it very arousing and appealing to be seen in public in full cow, or wearing a full leather uniform. It’s not necessarily about having sex, but more about the process of wearing leather: the smell, the feel, and all of that. I would rather worship a muscle daddy wearing leather with no penetration than let’s put on harnesses and go to a leather bar and then take it all off and have sex. 

V: So you moved to New York and you said that really became your introduction?

CK: Yeah so I would frequently bartend sex parties that were kink/fetish-oriented in nature to help supplement my income when I was working as a production assistant. That was a great way to sort of put my toe in the kiddy pool: I could see people participate but I didn’t have to participate. It was sort of finding community by osmosis. Some of it was really successful and some of it was not; it was really hit or miss. 

V: Was American Horror Story the first time you were able to bring that part of your life into your work?

CK: I came from a fabrication background so I started as an upholsterer. I’ve always wanted to be a set decorator and the process to be a union set decorator is lengthy but on the way I would always draw on these formative experiences I had as a child. Whether it’s looking at vintage gay porn and I’m picking out the sofa to help me with a period piece I’m working on. Or when I worked on Joker, I put together all of these photos of macho men from the 70s to understand who Joakim Phoenix idolized. So I was able to draw on these experiences — not in an explicit way — to inform my work. For American Horror Story, because it was so explicitly queer-oriented and leather-oriented, it was the first time I felt comfortable going to work wearing leather or flagging. It was really kind of coming out to my world: the payroll accountant knew I was into fisting and that was cool to an extent. 

American Horror Story was an extraordinarily transformative experience because it gave me the courage to be myself for the first time. I worked on the decorating team and the production designer, Matthew Flood Ferguson, was a really wonderful mentor for me in just nailing the period. I worked predominantly in the sets that focused on queer spaces. There are so many films out there, even like Cruising, where straight directors try to replicate the queer experience on film and they end up making a mockery of it. It was my goal to ethically represent the experience instead of doing the Hollywood version of it.

V: So in your reign as Mr Eagle you’ve started things like Into and SoBar —

CK: Yes! So Into started with me and my cofounder Champ. We were talking about something we could do on Thursdays because it’s kind of dead — normally like five or six people go. So we wanted something that would bring in people but also would bring gear back to the Eagle. We definitely didn’t expect for it to have the outcome that it did: 500 to 600 people come every other Thursday in any presentation of gear. It’s all gender, all body types and no cover. No one gets turned away. 

The finances of it all had always been stewing in the back of my mind after going to International Mr Leather. I had never gone to a leather convention before simply because I couldn’t afford it. There are so many wonderful, life changing experiences out there for rich white people or people who can afford to get in the door and if we are not changing the conversation to make things more financially equitable for all people then the rules and the expectations are only going to be shaped by an echo chamber of privilege. So it was important to me to address that.

But in addition to that, the first runner up for Mr Eagle, that I competed against is Rob Montana. He’s sober and I’m sober for medical reasons. So he pitched an idea during his run about having an alcohol free night at the Eagle. Because of capitalism that wasn’t really possible but we decided to take over sober spaces in gear. It’s great because it removes alcohol if it’s a trigger for you but also on a selfish note, I’m tired of people asking me why I don’t drink. So it removes that whole uncomfortable barrier and you get to know people on a deeper level. 

V: Has there been an experience during your reign that has reified or stamped the purpose that you’re doing all of this?

CK: Absolutely. We recently did a partnership with Frock The World which is an all body inclusive, all gender inclusive porn and video art company. We’ve done a couple events where we’ve partnered with them and a trans, nonbinary, gender nonconforming organization. And honestly the biggest gratification I can talk about is demystifying and destigmatizing the eagle for people who feel like it’s not for them. The Eagle is for everyone. It’s really wonderful to watch people step in and see their face open and really it’s not this big scary institution but it’s really this wonderful inclusive space for everybody. The amount of people who have come up to me and said I would have never known … it’s really one of those “don’t judge a place by its Yelp reviews” moments.